| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: Cannabis - cosmically conscious co-creative comforter.! |
|  |
|
QX!
This here is a transplanted topic that tangented from a Warriormatrix post re: travelling with orgonite.
Cannabis: it's proper utilizations, steps to refinement of research both in light of discernment of pitfalls and potential, personal anequedotes and links to the immense amount of datum available are all topics to discuss here (without excluding any aspect I may have left unwritten.
Personally, I am against any personal use of cannabis that comes the combustion of this very sacred and valuable comforter, unless it is being burnt as an incense. Inhalation of the smoke of cannabis as a personal measure is very much both highly ineffective and, IMHO, sacralegious. Personal use for healing, prayer and nutrition is higly powerful and effective when utilized through volatization/vaporization or infused into either edible or transdermal tissue infusiing vegetable oils. Burning is polluting and a grand insult to fully reasoning Beings as far as my perception has been refined... and this applies to much more than cannabis.
Industrially, cannabis has co-created the conditions that Civilization needed to get to the point we were circa the late 1800's.
Sacramentally, Kaneh Bosem has been in the Holy of Holies (from our limited.. at this time... records) since Moses' days. "G-d" commanded him to create a sacred annointing oil from olive oil with it as one of three vital infused elements into the oil that then the chidren of AAron, the priests, _must_ annoint themselves hair to toes before entering into the presence of "G-d". Trully translated as fragrant cane (which it is when sown many seeds to little land) and then more than likely purposefully mistranslated as Calamus - a poisonous plant akin to MDMA - there has been much debate as to the truth of this record. Recently, a Jewish scholar of ancient hebrew as confirmed that this is true. Extending this application of technique into the days of those Heroes of the age near the BC-AD turnover that had their stories amalgamated into the current slew of "Christian" mythos.. this technology was available and continued to be used.
It may be strongly put forth that the original commandment of "G-d" to Moses to keep this oil of the Holy of Holies only for the people of Israel.. the believers and race... and that anyone sharing this oil to Gentiles would be put away from his people, is what caused one of the Heroes of that day to be crucified on a cross. (though more than likely also, he was a crafty one and needed that experience to fully get deep enough into personal issues, aka a 'healing crisis', to really clear up somethings that were issus with his Lifepath.) If this is truth, and it also strongly looks to neatly and reasonably line up this way, then all those who clamor against the responsible use of cannabis are themselves, literally, Anti-Christ.
Hmmm. That's seems to be enough to chew on for most, so until I have more time to post links and relevant data, please enjoy, comment, and -for those with the inclination- amke every _attempt_ at skewering this information or even myself... As someone recently posted to a nearby board, we all need the practice!
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Old_Gobbo
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 566
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
| |
|
See I started looking into Cannabis from the scientific side of things first, which then sort of lead to the spiritual side of things, for both my perception of the plant, and myself in general.
Cannabis, when smoked, actually helps to kill the cells which cause lung cancer. If you look at the modern scientific reports (you'd be surprised at how many people present me with like.. Hearsh Published things from the 70's, 80's and expect me to take them seriously) you'll find that marijuana users who also smoke tobacco (I don't.) have a lower risk of contracting cancer then those who only smoke tobacco -- which, of course, wouldn't be expected because there is actually a bit more tar in marijuana than tobacco.
Having both ingested THC through fat soluble means, and smoked it i can say I have felt no discernible difference in terms of etheric effects. I am interested in why you think it is sacreligious to be smoked. Consider: Smoking hash, or other such finer, more pure extractions, is essentially the same as the vaporization technique that you endorse above. Since THC can sublime into vapor under low enough heat, when you vaporize weed you are essentially extracting only the THC -- which would be the same as smoking a pure extract like honey oil or budder, etc. I have 'smoked' things where there was very little 'smoke'. You see how the methods are somewhat functionally equivalent with varying degress of impurities mixed in? That is why I am curious about your position. Also, the references in ancient writings to the smoking of cannabis are endless...
Anyways, all and all I suffer from mild bouts of lethargy on occasion, but that must be recognized as vastly different from apathy. I feel myself to be quite bright and I exist within society more or less effortlessly, despite openly holding what that same society
believes to be quite bizarre beliefs. I'm a pretty happy guy, and I gift that way -- what more can I say for now? 
http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm
_________________
www.resoundingsounds.blogspot.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: |
| |
|
Essentially, the two methods of ingesting cannabis via inhalation - vaporization/volatization and combustion -activate the cannabinoids, of which THC is only one of (according to current research via 'scientific' methods) aprox. 61 other cannabinoids, in exactly the same way: heat. The V A S T distinction between them is the manner of heat induction and byproducts that result.
Imagine zooming ones perspective toward the micro to the point that the cannabis flower begins to look like a large tree. The trichromes -the glands that produce cannabinoidal 'crystals' and material of resinous nature - can be seen at a higher magnification... Here I am going to begin a somewhat artistic and simplistic metaphor to analogize a pretty intensive and complex process that 'I am a only an egg' within awareness of as yet. Metaphorically let's imagine these trichrome and the material they produce and uncooked loaves of bread. So, now we have a large thickly bushy tree with uncooked, hard to digest loaves of bread on them, from them, within their leaves. QX, this is the beginning step for both processes to enable comparison.
First, we'll look into smoking, as it is the most prevalent manner of inhalation (unfortunately...IMHO). Cut up those trees into large chunks, stuff them into big pit with a chimney. Burning the tree begins to cook some of the uncooked loaves of bread, they get extra active for a cooked loaf of bread and begin to bounce around fast enough to keep suspended into the air by bouncing off the air molecules along with the smoke. Eventually some of these cannabinoids bounce into a fatty tissue in the bifurcations of the lung and are absorbed into the body. (Personally, that's a lot of 'somes'...) What else happens...? MANY of the cannabinoids are combusted rather than activated through heat, much of the free oxygen in the air breathed in are needed for combustion and therefore are unavailable for body-process (bad bad), _much_ carbon byproducts are also deposited into the lungs. (which, yes, does get compensated for by the cannabinoids ingested.. though.. ummm I'll go into critique later...sorry  )
Two further aspects to relate -
1. ingestion of cannabis does raise awareness of internal body processes, yes? (unless one has already focused the powerful processes of cannabinoids to filter these awarenesses into the background of the conciousness.. more on this problematic characteristic of cannabis where "You get what you ask for." l8r) More of the autonomic functions and nearly all sensations are heightened.. internal mechanisms are lubed and boosted... nueral nets and those relationships increased... Contemplate the base of the brain where the brain stem meets the spinal column - this is basically an extremely evolved and integrated snake brain that manages the autonomic functions of heartbeat, breath, and simplistic body movements such as walking, etc. Now it will have the full gamut of natural responses to danger that a snake does... in fact, this area is mainly responsible for the "fight or flight" response involve in immediate visceral danger or the appearance of such. To rerelate a postulate: when ingesting cannabis the various body parts and their processes feel to raise up their perceptions and functions, mostly... Got me so far? So this snake-brain has an increase in responsiveness and efect upon the body hmmm? Here's the kicker... what's the first thing a sane snake does in a forest fire?? GTFO!, yeah? QX, here we a (postulated) situation where an increase in internal body process-awareness is also accompanied with a visceral increase in ancestral DNA-association of Fear... that has to be supressed by the higher brain (which has also increased in it's energy). Chemically though the suppression is something else than an erasure of these fear chemistries.. merely a diversion of nueral flow and inhibitory compounds that slow the fear molecules from interacting with the nets themselves... Eventually these inhibitionary factors wear out and that buildup of fear molecule goes somewhere; until a saturation point is reached for these molecules and that critical mass releases a great gob of temporally unrelated fear into a presently innocuous situation. IMO, this process is the base for so many of the paranoic experiences (helped along by the prevalent monsterization of cannabis and her supporters) that cannabis users from time to time experince when smoking her.
2. When smoking cannabis a huge amount of the latently available cannabinoids are destroyed. Combusted... ripped apart.. for a infinitesimal amount of energy compared to the natural and incalcuable potential therin. These are never recoverable. Internal assesment has related to my perceptions that a max of 20-30% of the readily available cannabinoids are delivered via combustion, and that is a high number with a relatively more resinous type of cannabis - which protects the cannabinoids from harm. On the average, from my studies, the yield is anywhere between 5-15%. I am confident in this in that I 1) have utilized cannabis for nearly 13 years and the last 3 I have exclusively inhaled via vaporization (with an increase in oil solubles also) and 2) my every use has been mainly (95%) medicinal in nature due to early childhood traumas that greatly inhibited my functioning and also greatly increased my internal awarenesses and techniques to overcome and ameliorate them (though having an intimate encounter with a large discharge of plasma when I was 1 1/2 also has added contributing factors to the whole ) In this I consistently measure and reflect my experinces to increase my abilities to perform my Work here. Besides these somewhat extraneous bits of data.. the yield is a phenominally inneffective ratio of dosage.
Now, let's look at the processes of volatization/vaporization. Again, the basic and main treatment of the cannabis for inhalitory ingestion is via heat. In this analogy though the tree is cut up into smaller pieces and loosened up to increase a smooth and full flow of air as well as an increase in surface area, loaded into a large oven with a chimney. The oven heats the tree and the loaves of bread to a point above activation and below combustion. The loaves again become active and begin to suspend themselves through bouncing between air molecules and are drawn into the lungs. Note the conspicuous lack of combustion of said cannabinoids (when done properly.. there is usually a slightly higher learning curve here... dependent upon mechanism this can be very high) which obviously induces a high delivery of said cannabinoids. Also, the tree itself is left unburnt and therefore we get less material deposition of unwanted carbon products and more of the very much wanted element of oxygen. This in itself is cause for serious consideration to those focusing on increasing the abilities and reliability of their bodies. Overall the internal appearance of yield % in my experiences has been anywhere from 50-80% of the available cannabinoids delivered via inhalation.
Again two points for further relation:
1. There is a likelyhood that in this process the unmolested cannabinoids and their vehicle of protection, called resin, may co-create more complex and bio-activating cannabinoids in the cooking process. I report this from personal experiences that are much more reasonably explained with this possible characterization. If this is possible, it would be very benficil to explore in that the various cannabinoids have very particular and powerful uses within the body. THC is merely one of them and more unto a conductor of a symphony re: the effects of the other cannabinoids in the body, the positive changes facilitated by those cannabinoids, (ie. decreased occular pressure, increased sensitivity to light, etc etc ETC.. lots and lots) More upon this later also.
2. Now, regarding the actual leftover material there exists within it (Culturally within my realm of habitation named: 'huff') bio-activated cannabinoids and trichromes that were unble to be released into the atmosphere for a variety of reasons, ie. non-expansion of the flower around said trichromes, etc lack of suficient airflow to some of the material and other factors. This 'huff' can be utilized to create infused vegetative oild for cooking or massage/tissue transfusion. Which in themselves are of a much more refined and bio-harmonied manner of use for cannabis and health (another even larger topic for discussion to come.) Therin the appreciable possible yield for the full utilization of the matria approached 90-95%.
I'm so zapped out at the moment so I'm temporarily tabling the explanation of my view that combustion of cannabis is tantamount to sacrilege anon.
Thanks for your perusal and consideration.
Much health and potency to you,
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old_Gobbo
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 566
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
| |
|
Hmm.. .very interesting. I got that completely -- good analogy, by the way.
I shall have to think about this. Will report back.
_________________
www.resoundingsounds.blogspot.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
| |
|
QX! Waiting Is.
Thanks for the acknowledgement. Much appreciated.
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old_Gobbo
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 566
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
| |
|
Personally I find lying, cheating, and stealing to be impractical and counter productive.
I wouldn't say I'm terribly smart, either 
_________________
www.resoundingsounds.blogspot.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
| |
|
--- These words may appear to be F L A M E O L I C I O U S... that is false.. with mayhaps the exception of the second to last paragraph... (That one is definitely heterodyned heavily.) Mostly, my underlying tone only gets to annoyed.. again mostly.---
"I kinda wonder if pot doesn't somehow influence the" B.S. pseudo intellectual "part of the human anatomy favorably.
Obviously, Saki and nearly every alcoholic drink does influence the willfully ignorant parts of the human anatomy unfavorably. "Alcohol causes 5 times the amount of death that heroin, cocaine, PCP, smack, etc combined!" _ The late and great (except for the absolute apathetic cynicism that probably kept him from being able to heal himself.) Mr. Bill Hicks!! Nathan "Wash" go squegee your third eye and practice your namesake a litle more.
"Everyone I've ever known that smoked weed, did show EXTREME intelligence, but, unfortunately, they all used that "intelligence" to lie, cheat, and steal their ways thru life."
Extreme intelligence and anything inhaled that was smoked are diametrically opposed... go get a dictionary. I've seen more alchohol drinkers, cigatte smokers and "regular Joes" use those tactics of self-distruction thatn the vast majority of cannabis users. I've NEVER encountered someone who is using this totem of consciousness sacredly and medicinally and I NEVER will. Go back to the 4th paragraph from the top of this forum and read it S L O W L Y.... now attempt to deduce the postion being discussed that REALLY fits the topic...
Sorry if I seem too "blunt" (pun intended) but i'm right now under the influence of some genetically modified, fermented, white rice, which seems to have the effect of making my balls bigger, (as opposed to my brain )
I'm intrisically built to lean towards letting you go have your fun and poison yourself.. though you are spilling this over into PsyWarriorMatrix and onto a forum for Sacred, Just and Healthy Nutrition and Healing... Plus, a massive and well-cordinated psionic attack nearly shattered my life and those of my loved ones through mental and emotional manipulation in manners unseen in my life for over a DECADE neatly two hours after you posted this here.
Regardless of your conscious culpability, Nathan Wash, the next time you wanna stick your monkey wrench mentality into a gearworks and then leave a psionic backdoor open into this Grid the Warriors here are weaving by drunkenly napping off in some corner getting yourself 'off' with idea of a cleverly twisted phrase... I will let these Gears grind and sear that wrench into it's constituent parts and slag them into a better build and material. The safety catch is off and it is only going to get tighter and faster from here on. Next time the Works of Gaia you so humbly harass will be unable to spit you out as you are now.
Get on or get out of the way. You better keep an eagle's eye on this also. Heavy trains with a lot of speed can look quite small and far away even when they're really only a breath away. You're a danger to yourself, my freight and the countryside until you've gotten a little more of an engineer's education. Trust this, the hard way costs lifetimes; I started this forum topic to enable people to get it faster than Neo got his Kung Fu.
Good Luck,
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist.
Last edited by Kimball Kinnison on Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
| |
|
| nathan wash wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm intrisically built to lean towards letting you go have your fun and poison yourself.. though you are spilling this over into PsyWarriorMatrix and onto a forum for Sacred, Just and Healthy Nutrition and Healing... Plus, a massive and well-cordinated psionic attack nearly shattered my life and those of my loved ones through mental and emotional manipulation in manners unseen in my life for over a DECADE neatly two hours after you posted this here. |
O.K.
Sorry if I've subconciously F'ed your life up....
BUT, I personally am diametrically opposed to deception ( for whatever the reason)...
Didn't Dennis Griffin start this forum? (as opposed to "Kimball Kinnison
Explain that ?!@!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!! |
Ineffective and infantile... 3 posts where one would have sufficed.
Look NW, you are unable to subconcsiously F my life up... even I am unable to do that and I am the only person/being/etc that would have the chance. We all can make it easier for those of whom we are here to transform to challenge us in painful and unappetizing ways. Even the small window of dissension and ridicule, rather than practical and intelligent DEBATE where Objective analysis of Subjective experience is shared and tested, in such a subtle and hyper-connected community such as this one (the oronite movement that is, being that I obviously have to highlight the obvious for you) can be a Vast opportunity for the Entropics (of whom we are here to tame and bring into the Family of Centropy) to sow uneeded misery. Especially when one of the participants on our 'side' in the conversation is in a toxic rice-driven semi-stupor. Do you really have so little idea of the interconnectedness we all have and the amount of personal power you have that even a small fraction therin can create drastic affects upon the web being woven???? Some may feel I might have over-reacted; to those I fully disagree. Being sentimental with the amount of 'kindness' we have when dealing with blatantly errant fellow Warriors is at best suicidal. Tighten up your ship before it sinks a fleet in our flotilla!
You say you have inhereint opposition to deception... what of the vast industrial, societal, ecological and medical deceptions being waged upon this reality by those who subvert the opportunities present with Sacred, respone-able, and clarified utilization of Cannabis in it's entirety? Have you done ANY research excepeting the experiences you've had with brain-fried misled cannabis defilers? Did you even read fully the posts at the top of his forum topic... THIS forum topic.. the one topic entitled Cannabis.. the one topic I wrote I created and that you poorly attempted to place a small amount of scorn on me through a blatant misinterpretaion of a simple unspecified phrase. which has now been edited ith the addition of 'topic' to help out.. Yeah, the one where I itemized a very brief and simplistic Peronal view that smoking cannabis is unhealthy and detrimental to the extreme/!?! The one postulating via my own experiences and corraborated with MANY others people experiences that there are vastly improved ways to utilize this medicine, food, healing balm, grace of creation?!?! Truly that topic is the cliche tip-of-teh-iceberg when the much larger amounts of synergistic technologies available from full organized use of Cannabis are brought ino the matter at hand. What of your sense of motivativation to uproot deception regarding those?
Wash, you're gonna be here... That's good. Watch your step. I for one am gonna have to see more practical usefulness from your mentality before I go out of my way to keep you from being bisected by a lot of steel rolling down the track, if you keep throwing egg in my face and the faces of millions of people who are suffering injustice upon injustice.
Do some real research pro and con before you continue to distract focus here. If you would like to Debate in a full and Reasonable manner where you show even a smidge of contemplation to words shared here, you are resoundingly welcome. If you have problems with this, or concise and clear though lengthy words, enjoy wherever you wander; though please keep from squandering important time.
Thank you,
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist.
Last edited by Kimball Kinnison on Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sensei
Site Admin
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 4083
Location: Here Now
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
| |
|
Hai, Sensei.
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old_Gobbo
Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 566
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: |
| |
|
Kimball you're hilarious -- a truly interesting read. (I almost typed 'weed' there, lol)
Anyways, I have been pondering your analysis lately in depth. I find myself agreeing with you in a theoretical sense, but I would like some clarification if at all possible...
1.) How much worse is smoking cannabis than vaporization or similar in function extractions? That sounds sort of like an excusatory question, I know, but I am interested moreso in the energetic/psychological sense, and less in terms of thc percentages. Feel free to simply give me your subjective experiences.
2. Also, if Sensei has any input on this subject I would be interested to hear what you see (if you have) when someone uses cannabis in any manner. I have read some Reich, and other sources on this, but have never gotten an explanation I could conceptualize all that well.
_________________
www.resoundingsounds.blogspot.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: |
| |
|
| Old_Gobbo wrote: | Kimball you're hilarious -- a truly interesting read. (I almost typed 'weed' there, lol)
Anyways, I have been pondering your analysis lately in depth. I find myself agreeing with you in a theoretical sense, but I would like some clarification if at all possible...
1.) How much worse is smoking cannabis than vaporization or similar in function extractions? That sounds sort of like an excusatory question, I know, but I am interested moreso in the energetic/psychological sense, and less in terms of thc percentages. Feel free to simply give me your subjective experiences.
2. Also, if Sensei has any input on this subject I would be interested to hear what you see (if you have) when someone uses cannabis in any manner. I have read some Reich, and other sources on this, but have never gotten an explanation I could conceptualize all that well. |
Thanks O.G. I appreciate your interest. (BTW, were you aware that Cannabis is actually a perrenial?!? More on that later..)
1. This is a weighty question and in the rather volatile recent activity here in this TOPIC, I'm gooing to PM you with the specifics (which will require some time for me to qualify and conclusively, coherently colate them to you, so please have some patience... Simply said though, In my experiences this distinction is Huge. Energetic/Psychologically there is a considerable impairment compared to volatization aka vaporization or other extracts... though again personally my jury remains out whereas extracts prepared via alchohol techniques are used (everclear, anything above 140 proof has a use herein). For m it took upwards of a month and a half of fasting from smoking to confidently feel the distinctions clearly enough to quantify and qualify. Again further specifics I will PM you with and as I feel more robust regarding that coorespondance I will post notes here. OH and I just caught that thc % thing... Personally, I feel THC is important the way that a conductor in a orchestra is important. It balances and synergizes the great associative changes occuring in the body within the parameters of brain function and control. The crux here is that the other cannabinoids are vastly distinct and unique AND very important to utilize as their properties specifically and in community... sooo more on that later.. small qualification I trust will slowly begin etching new patterns of revealing...
2. Has Reich written anything regarding Cannabis/ That is immensely interesting to me and would appreciate anyone's reference to this. In this same vein, I strongly invite all whom are reading this forum to PM me with any ? or comments if they feel unsure or skitish about discussing this on open forum. P L E A S E ! I am very passionate regarding bringing more full Truth to this subject and I strongly Vow (yes.. V O W... much more binding than any kind of promise) to uphold all confidentiality rigorously.
Now, I came here tonight to post something specific so here it is.
I am going to introduce a little syllabus for the next topic within this TOPIC... hmmm (I wonder when I'll let that go... anyways cross my fingers that it's soon. This body was borna Scorpio so I'm working on that )
I'm going to keep mostly to discussing and binging data regarding the beneficial nutritional aspects of Cannabis that are non-controversial for a little while. Mostly, subjects concerning both the nutrification of our bodies (the vast amount of Omega 3s nd 6s present in the glorious seed of Cannabis) and the soil that we use to grow our foods (Cannabis has an astounding rooting structure that actually will fix nitrogen naturally into the soil Very fasat when compared to other crops and also enable prevention of topsoil erosion and other detrimental affects that most rotational crops have.. IMHO Cannabis NEEDS to be supersaturationally seeded into the vast amount of clear cut orests to keep runoff and flash mudslides... again IMHO). So that's a lot of data to compile, sift and relate so please bear with me for a few days... I'l be back with that soon. Thanks much,
Jason
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karen
Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 535
Location: Rochester, NY
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Cannabis and the mechanism of medicinal substances |
| |
|
Old_Gobbo,
I haven't followed this entire thread, but thought I'd share my 2 cents here since you asked for additional input.
First, I think it's interesting to note how emotionally charged this issue is for many people. We sense that there is something powerful about this substance. Then we form beliefs about it, and become attached to the beliefs so that we take it personally when someone disagrees with our belief.
That dynamic in itself is one of the salient discoveries of Reich - the "Emotional Plague Reaction." There is a biophysical basis for the way people push each other's buttons, and why we have those buttons in the first place, which Reich wrote about.
But he didn't need to talk specifically about all the things and circumstances that trigger this emotional plague reaction in people - the beauty of his work is that he got to the heart of the phenomona rather than digress with discussions of all the various forms it can take. It's up to us to understand the phenomena and apply it in all the different contexts.
But rather than digress into a discussion of the emotional plague reaction at this point, I'll go back to the specific topic - cannabis.
In order to understand the effects of this substance, we have to understand that it is a medicinal substance. Medicinal substances are those substances that can generate changes in the life force, but in a particular way that foods and other substances that we're more acclimated to, generally don't.
Foods affect us energetically, of course, but more in the manner of balancing things, whereas a medicinal substance makes a particular kind of impingement on the life force.
(Bear with me - I know this idea of medicinal substances is foreign to many people, because it comes out of Dr. Hahnemann's writings which were suppressed and misinterpreted until very recently, much as Reich's were.)
Medicinal substances can include all herbs, not just cannabis, because they all can make this kind of imprint on the life force. It's not a matter of whether they're good or bad, but how they are used, for what purpose. And are we using them with conscious knowledge of what the substance is really doing, or just because we might like the effects? Reich knew that science was about conscious knowledge of principles.
In the same vein but on the medical side of things, we have Dr. Hahnemann, who discovered the actual mechanism of a medicinal substance.
The human being has a life force which has a creative, generative aspect - the aspect that has the capacity to generate new life and new ideas (ideas have life although not physical). The medicinal substance also has this generative capacity within itself, and is a kind of being.
You take two beings that have generative capacity and put them together, and it's a kind of sexual act, in principle. This is what Reich called "cosmic superimposition" - two orgonomes interpenetrating. If the medicinal substance is sufficiently strong, this can result in a disease entity being created out of that act.
This is the mechanism for iatrogenic disease (disease caused by drugs or allopathic treatments). But it's not just allopathic drugs that do this - ANY medicinal substance has the potential to do this.
Most herbs that we use with food are ones that we're pretty well acclimated to, and they don't affect us this way. But certainly medicinal herbs that are given by herbalists in large doses, have some iatrogenic effects along with the therapeutic effects. Medicine in crude form, as drugs and herbs are, always has this potential.
This is part of the reason why Dr. Hahnemann experimented with and discovered the use of the dynamized dose which is highly diluted and so the therapeutic effects are maintained but the substance no longer has any iatrogenic effect. This is called the potentized dose as opposed to the crude dose.
Cannabis will have an iatrogenic effect when taken in any crude form, whether smoking, eating or anything else. If you make it into a "homeopathic" remedy and take it in a potentized dose, then it can have no harmful effects. It will have energetic effects, for sure, but not in a way that can engender disease entities.
Now, this doesn't mean that we should jump to the conclusion that "medicinal substances are bad." Reich would call that reaction the "invasion of compulsory sex morality" - in other words, a false judgment. All we want to do is understand HOW something works, so that we can use our own freedom of thought to decide what we want to do about it.
Sometimes a crude herb or crude drug is just what is needed to help palliate symptoms in the short run while we're working on the real cause of a problem, without causing much damage. But that's where it takes a lot of skill in knowing how to use medicinal substances. This is not just the kind of shamanic wisdom we're familiar with, because our modern consciousness is in a new stage of evolution.
Owen Barfield and Rudolf Steiner are good sources to read about what modern consciousness requires, which is fundamentally different from older consciousness (as represented by shamanism and eastern religions). What was good for the goose isn't necessarily appropriate for the gander!
Substances that "expand" the mind, are only expanding the archons, the luciferic and ahrimanic forces. We want to evolve in consciousness, not sink back into the old consciousness of immersion in the primordial oneness.
(That's a huge subject that could be a whole 'nother conversation).
But here's how I see the crux of the issue of mind-altering substances in terms of consciousness -
Substances can seem to take us up "higher" but it's not a true advancement - we can't go directly up to spirit without reaching there through our own efforts. Otherwise we don't own it - only something you've worked hard for by your own efforts can be truly yours. You can have interesting experiences in the spirit realm, but they're experiences that happen TO you, not BY you. Your own will can't take you there, so there is no freedom in that.
-Karen
_________________
Dynamic Regimen and Nutrition Counseling
Individualized counseling for nutrition and natural healing:
www.dynamicregimen.com
Free e-book, newsletter, articles and resources:
www.guideforselfhealing.com
Last edited by karen on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:45 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
| |
|
| nathan wash wrote: | O.K. I apologize.
F L A M E L I C I O U S ...was right...
I was merely attempting to relate my frustration with having to deal with the potheads at my local Pizza Hut, to your verbally gratuitous, although incredibly in depth, explanation of a shortcut to spirituality that I feel uncomfortable with at this time.
And while, YES , I am basically an alcoholic , I don't feel the need to defend myself in this regard with an exemplary display of verbiosity ( i'm a Gemini .. We knowz lotsa big wordz 2 !!!) ((please read the previous in the thickest redneck slang you can conjure))
I'm sorry I wasn't here to read your recently edited posts ( as well my recently edited (not by me) posts)...
I'm sure we both had something really important to say (x'cept I can't remember, cuz I'm an alcoholic, and your a pothead, so I'm sure whatever you had to say, was long and laborious to read, too much for my small mind to comprehend no doubt!!!
OOOPS!!! Did I do it again???!!!
Flame on !!!!!!
Damn!!! That feels reeeeal gooood!!!!!! |
OK. "Let's agree to disagree." Laying more of the cards on the table makes me feel much les uncomfortable about your comments and, IMHO, very misled perspectives about an exceedingly important tool for our growth. To me cannabis is NOT a shortcut to Spirtuality, it is an adjunct, when used properly, to help mediate the vast effects that bringing more Prana, Chi, etc into our experiences through these bodies of ours. Medically and spiritually cannabis has a loooong nutritional place in countless cultures to condition the sometimes very difficult, at times malefic, byproducts of spiritual exploration.
Personally, anyone using cannabis to reach Mind, 'to get them There" is stupid, irresponse-able, and a dangerous loose cannon rolling though a minefield. Cannabis rightly is used (in it's considerable qualities and forms of technique) to mitigate the mutational byproducts of the Body's responses to opening our floodgates here to Mind, Spirit, prana, Chi. etc. to balance our experiences amongst our Bretheren.
It is uneeded to have to go ANYWHERE to tap into Mind, yes? Though plugging your computer directly into a high-tension Megawatt electrical power-line without any buffering or transformers is also possible too, yes?
Oh and Nate? I'm aware that you (probably) couldn't care much less about pissing in what I strongly consider one of my Churches. We've hired an extra custodian who is carefully cleaning up after as we speak. Thanks for the lab samples, BTW...
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimball Kinnison
Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 354
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cannabis and the mechanism of medicinal substances |
| |
|
| karen wrote: | Old_Gobbo,
I haven't followed this entire thread, but thought I'd share my 2 cents here since you asked for additional input.
First, I think it's interesting to note how emotionally charged this issue is for many people. We sense that there is something powerful about this substance. Then we form beliefs about it, and become attached to the beliefs so that we take it personally when someone disagrees with our belief.
That dynamic in itself is one of the salient discoveries of Reich - the "Emotional Plague Reaction." There is a biophysical basis for the way people push each other's buttons, and why we have those buttons in the first place, which Reich wrote about.
But he didn't need to talk specifically about all the things and circumstances that trigger this emotional plague reaction in people - the beauty of his work is that he got to the heart of the phenomona rather than digress with discussions of all the various forms it can take. It's up to us to understand the phenomena and apply it in all the different contexts.
But rather than digress into a discussion of the emotional plague reaction at this point, I'll go back to the specific topic - cannabis.
In order to understand the effects of this substance, we have to understand that it is a medicinal substance. Medicinal substances are those substances that can generate changes in the life force, but in a particular way that foods and other substances that we're more acclimated to, generally don't.
Foods affect us energetically, of course, but more in the manner of balancing things, whereas a medicinal substance makes a particular kind of impingement on the life force.
(Bear with me - I know this idea of medicinal substances is foreign to many people, because it comes out of Dr. Hahnemann's writings which were suppressed and misinterpreted until very recently, much as Reich's were.)
Medicinal substances can include all herbs, not just cannabis, because they all can make this kind of imprint on the life force. It's not a matter of whether they're good or bad, but how they are used, for what purpose. And are we using them with conscious knowledge of what the substance is really doing, or just because we might like the effects? Reich knew that science was about conscious knowledge of principles.
In the same vein but on the medical side of things, we have Dr. Hahnemann, who discovered the actual mechanism of a medicinal substance.
The human being has a life force which has a creative, generative aspect - the aspect that has the capacity to generate new life and new ideas (ideas have life although not physical). The medicinal substance also has this generative capacity within itself, and is a kind of being.
You take two beings that have generative capacity and put them together, and it's a kind of sexual act, in principle. This is what Reich called "cosmic superimposition" - two orgonomes interpenetrating. If the medicinal substance is sufficiently strong, this can result in a disease entity being created out of that act.
This is the mechanism for iatrogenic disease (disease caused by drugs or allopathic treatments). But it's not just allopathic drugs that do this - ANY medicinal substance has the potential to do this.
Most herbs that we use with food are ones that we're pretty well acclimated to, and they don't affect us this way. But certainly medicinal herbs that are given by herbalists in large doses, have some iatrogenic effects along with the therapeutic effects. Medicine in crude form, as drugs and herbs are, always has this potential.
This is part of the reason why Dr. Hahnemann experimented with and discovered the use of the dynamized dose which is highly diluted and so the therapeutic effects are maintained but the substance no longer has any iatrogenic effect. This is called the potentized dose as opposed to the crude dose.
Cannabis will have an iatrogenic effect when taken in any crude form, whether smoking, eating or anything else. If you make it into a "homeopathic" remedy and take it in a potentized dose, then it can have no harmful effects. It will have energetic effects, for sure, but not in a way that can engender disease entities.
Now, this doesn't mean that we should jump to the conclusion that "medicinal substances are bad." Reich would call that reaction the "invasion of compulsory sex morality" - in other words, a false judgment. All we want to do is understand HOW something works, so that we can use our own freedom of thought to decide what we want to do about it.
Sometimes a crude herb or crude drug is just what is needed to help palliate symptoms in the short run while we're working on the real cause of a problem, without causing much damage. But that's where it takes a lot of skill in knowing how to use medicinal substances. This is not just the kind of shamanic wisdom we're familiar with, because our modern consciousness is in a new stage of evolution.
Owen Barfield and Rudolf Steiner are good sources to read about what modern consciousness requires, which is fundamentally different from older consciousness (as represented by shamanism and eastern religions). What was good for the goose isn't necessarily appropriate for the gander!
Substances that "expand" the mind, are only expanding the archons, the luciferic and ahrimanic forces. We want to evolve in consciousness, not sink back into the old consciousness of immersion in the primordial oneness.
(That's a huge subject that could be a whole 'nother conversation).
But here's how I see the crux of the issue of mind-altering substances in terms of consciousness -
Substances can seem to take us up "higher" but it's not a true advancement - we can't go directly up to spirit without reaching there through our own efforts. Otherwise we don't own it - only something you've worked hard for by your own efforts can be truly yours. You can have interesting experiences in the spirit realm, but they're experiences that happen TO you, not BY you. Your own will can't take you there, so there is no freedom in that.
-Karen |
Thank you Karen for your insightful and contemplated words. I very much look forward to further discussions with you and the revealing they will generate. We were creating our comments last night at nearly the same moments and I was completely unaware of your post until a few minutes ago after checking my email. Ihave enjoyed your other clear, useful and well formed posts to WM and PWM.
I do agree that this is issue is charged, though I have to clarify and elaborate more of my POV. My main response to Nathan was mainly charged by an obvious lack of intelligent perusal of my shared data and the major flippancy he brought to this forum TOPIC... That in itself is a personal cause of concern and coupled with the drive I have to bring awareness to the literal incarceration of a major componenet of humanity's capabilities really left zero room for me to coddle such "stick-my-head-in-sand-and-I'll-be-safe" mentality which is reprehensible in any situation, especially in this community we are sharing amongst this website and our collective efforts. Innapropriate passivity in my past has been a large detriment to myself and others and I am bettering myself by speaking more of the Truth I have surfaced from Within. Apologies for the rough and crude natures it may have presently.
The main crux I am seeing here wehere we have a divergence already is the perspectives of use and the Actual usefulnesses that cannabis has as much more than a medical substance. It definitively is capable of being grown and used as one, and when doing so must have a VERY firm and thorough set of limiters and positive meme-sets to give definition and boundaries to it's far reaching afect, this I agree with completely. As you also can see from some of the similarities in our posts last night, is that cannabis is never going to be that that lifts us up to expand our mind. I firmly believe through my experiences that it never really does anything of the sort. However, the untrained and unfamiliar feelings that people have when using this herb in that manner can be seen as such when people are given and believe the many 'white lies' prevalent in many human societies. Combined with the interesting fact, that most mammals have inner structures that will create 'endo-cannabinoids' when the presence of cannabinoids are minimal to complete needed internal chemistries leads me see that cannabis is much more than merely a medicinal substance.
Basically, my view is that cannabis is a integral part of mammalian health. Virtually all mammals. As OG stated in a previous post in this topic, there are some striking synchronisities found externally and internally that cannabis may have been seeded here from extra-solar sources and has been pivitol in humanoidal development. Along with the many useful qualities it has for ecologic reclamation, economic bolstering that also is aligned ecologically, the tremendously healthy aspects of it's seed structure for our immune and nervous functions simply from it's balanced fatty-acids, and the comforting qualities it has with those in major pain and the vast improvements to internal order and abilities of those who have consciously and (less so) unconsciously used it's medicinal aspects for are of main import to me. I have had first hand experience, as well as through those shared experiences and stories of others, with the strange and uncomfortable nuerologic and physiologic 'deformations' that can occur with effects that can come from imbalanced and untimely sojourns into realms of Dense spiritual interaction _without_ medicinal or chemical assistance. I have had direct blancing and healthful redress of these with a more full and complete use of Cannabis within it's various qualities, hence my passion for creating, facilitating and seeding ttruthful, forthright and open exploration and research without fear of social stigmatism. This is a Part of what I seek as a needed step to Reclamation, only Part though.
'Nuf said for now.
Thanks again for your comments, karen.
JC
_________________
Be truly Yourself: a care filled, response able, riskful, and confidently, compassionately, effectively empowered Solutionist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
