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Old_Gobbo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Karma Reply with quote

What are people's thoughts on Karma?

I believe in reincarnation, but the concept of Karma has always bugged me. I mean, it seems like in India the hindu caste system was introduced so that the government could do anything they wanted to the people, and the populace would simply see it as deserving of it. I don't know about the ancient past, but right now India is a crap hole -- is it because all these people have incurred some karmic debt? Do the people in the middle easy deserve to die right now?

I am not so convinced.

I see so many people in the new age movement with this same mentality. "oh don't worry about the negative... that's just karma" and I feel like it's totally agency. We already know how heavily co-authored the new age field is by paid liars, so I am suspicious of this hindu aspect which has seemed into this paradigm.
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karen
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Karma Reply with quote

Old_Gobbo wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Karma?

I believe in reincarnation, but the concept of Karma has always bugged me. I mean, it seems like in India the hindu caste system was introduced so that the government could do anything they wanted to the people, and the populace would simply see it as deserving of it. I don't know about the ancient past, but right now India is a crap hole -- is it because all these people have incurred some karmic debt? Do the people in the middle easy deserve to die right now?


Karma is usually confused with morality. It has nothing at all to do with deserving something "bad" or deserving something "good." Morality is what the Matrix is based on. The spirit of God has no morality, but it is about true ethics, and to be ethical means to be aligned with your higher self, from which flows ethical action. No moral judgment. When people suffer or die, it's because that is what they needed from a higher spiritual view. This of course can be taken simplistically and misunderstood.

Karma is the law of cause and effect. We live in duality, since we separated from the pristine oneness (garden of eden). We had to separate, so that we could realize individual freedom. Being one in an unconscious way is not freedom. So as a result of the separation from God, we now have aspects of us that are in darkness, ignorance, that we haven't yet brought up to the light of consciousness.

Christ (as a spiritual phenomenon, not talking about religion) said repent our sins, and that just means that wherever we have not transformed the unconscious darkness into consciousness, we have to work to change our state of mind. Sin is only "missing the mark," where we are not in line with our higher spiritual capacity. And the answer to that is to shift our state of mind, change our consciousness, that's what repent means.

Karma is the backlog of such un-transformed energy that we carry with us in this life so that we can make it conscious and free ourselves. Some karma is from past lives, and some is what we incur in this life.

Someone who has a very heavy load may be working on many lifetimes of karma. Someone who has a relatively lighter load may have chosen not to take on much in this life, for some reason, and there are higher spiritual reasons for these things. We can't judge or draw simplistic conclusions.


Quote:
I see so many people in the new age movement with this same mentality. "oh don't worry about the negative... that's just karma" and I feel like it's totally agency.


yes, because that's making a judgment. But many people think this way because they're sincerely trying to understand their lives, and they're not deliberately trying to spread disinfo. They're just falling into the traps of Lucifer and Ahriman again, thinking that they are escaping that.

Quote:
We already know how heavily co-authored the new age field is by paid liars, so I am suspicious of this hindu aspect which has seemed into this paradigm.


Many of the traditional religions are based on this older consciousness that doesn't see individual freedom as an ideal. The idea is to deny worldly existence, not get involved in this "lower" stuff, just ignore all the shadow stuff. That was appropriate for ancient times, because they were much less incarnated than we are now. Now we have to confront the shadow and transform it. And there are many traps along the way, where people tend to judge and get stuck in false beliefs, just as Lucifer and Ahriman want us to.

-Karen
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Old_Gobbo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We can't judge or draw simplistic conclusions.


I guess this is my point: to predicate human understanding on some notion of 'well we can't understand it -- it's too complex', coupled with 'don't even try to judge' is something that makes me nervous, personally. If I was a tyrant I would try and have people adopt this mindset.
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karen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old_Gobbo wrote:
Quote:
We can't judge or draw simplistic conclusions.


I guess this is my point: to predicate human understanding on some notion of 'well we can't understand it -- it's too complex', coupled with 'don't even try to judge' is something that makes me nervous, personally. If I was a tyrant I would try and have people adopt this mindset.


Agreed! Because there is another distinction to be made here. Judgment means to reduce something down to where we can set it against a certain standard. Already we have the problem of, whose standard? Who is qualified to judge? This is the trap of Ahriman, false judgement.

But this is NOT the same thing as relativisim that says that we can't know anything. When the ego lets go of false judgment, it then wants to grab onto another falsehood, that everything must be subjective and we can't know the essence of anything. This is the trap of Lucifer.

What happens is that we rebel against one of those guys, and land right into the trap of the other. If we don't like the Luciferic relativism, we go toward an Ahrimanic reductionism. I think the truth is neither.

When I said that karma is complex and we can't judge, I didn't mean that we can then make up any beliefs we want to about it, which is what the newage wants to do. It wants to adopt a mindset, as you say.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with adopting any mindset. I don't write anything hoping that people will believe what I say. Naturally words have different connotations to different people, so I may say something that someone hears in a different way than what I meant. So okay, if you're still up for the discussion, let's examine that. That's what creative, independent thinking is, right?

Not that we have to nail everything right on the nose all the time.. because the truth isn't a matter of figuring out facts, anyway, but it's an ongoing process of evolving our understanding. The important thing is that we're talking in the spirit of creative, critical thinking, not in the spirit of indoctrination and belief. When you're being scammed, you won't get to first base with anything remotely related to critical thinking. Thinking isn't allowed. That to me is the real criteria.

-Karen
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Old_Gobbo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I understand what you're saying now Karen.

i actually 'woke up' for lack of a better phrase during college (where I still am for reasons I will get into now) and as a philosophy major, it's been an interesting challenge for me to learn and incorporate all these arguably 'false' theories into my understanding -- because in the main, they are brilliant (as Satan tends to be).

It's training... for what? I am unsure. But you see the edge I am walking... it's quite a ride Smile
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karen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old_Gobbo wrote:
I think I understand what you're saying now Karen.
i actually 'woke up' for lack of a better phrase during college (where I still am for reasons I will get into now) and as a philosophy major, it's been an interesting challenge for me to learn and incorporate all these arguably 'false' theories into my understanding -- because in the main, they are brilliant (as Satan tends to be).


Oh yeah, especially the Kantian view that dominates, telling us that we can't know anything beyond the outer forms of things, very brilliantly satanic (ahrimanic), eh? The brain-mind intellect cut off from the body-mind wisdom, can happily go on these intellectual excursions, and like the duck trying to get to the pond, it can never really get there but it keeps trying to. Not realizing that the intellect is the wrong organ of cognition for higher reality - we have to develop our supersensible organs of cognition and they are very rusty!

Quote:
It's training... for what? I am unsure. But you see the edge I am walking... it's quite a ride Smile


Heh, for sure. And it's training for being human, don't you think? Not for being homo normalis, but maybe homo naturalis? I don't know, I just made that up!

-Karen
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Old_Gobbo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Heh, for sure. And it's training for being human, don't you think? Not for being homo normalis, but maybe homo naturalis? I don't know, I just made that up!


I think so Wink
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Meredith
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi
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